Alcohol Spark Plugs
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I think the most common are going to be your B9E series
QUOTE (bansh-eman @ Jul 6 2008, 10:16 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=4665I think the most common are going to be your B9E series
That's what I figured, but why a B9 as opposed to a B7? Wouldn't you want to go the other direction with the plug's heat range?
That's what I figured, but why a B9 as opposed to a B7? Wouldn't you want to go the other direction with the plug's heat range?
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QUOTE (FireHead @ Jul 7 2008, 10:02 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=4680That's what I figured, but why a B9 as opposed to a B7? Wouldn't you want to go the other direction with the plug's heat range?
B9ES @ .018 is all I run Mark....the only reason I don't run BR series is my Hotwires have a resistor built into them....
Although the methanol cools the motor better, the actual combustion is hotter than gas. That's the need for a colder plug.
B9ES @ .018 is all I run Mark....the only reason I don't run BR series is my Hotwires have a resistor built into them....
Although the methanol cools the motor better, the actual combustion is hotter than gas. That's the need for a colder plug.
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I run BR9ES, resistor is because I run a dyna ignition. I don't run a small gap on my plugs though, I run them the way they come out the box. I tried gapping them from .018-.024, then as they come and that's what I had the best results with. Bike seemed to run better overall....just my experience
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I like the B9EGVs because the fine wire electrode tends to burn off easier to let you know you are lean!!!
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QUOTE (Backcountry @ Jul 7 2008, 01:00 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=4689I like the B9EGVs because the fine wire electrode tends to burn off easier to let you know you are lean!!!
I know the firing tip is the fine wire, but I thought I saw a pic somewhere of the ground strap on those being thicker than the ES series plugs.
I'll see if I can find those...
I know the firing tip is the fine wire, but I thought I saw a pic somewhere of the ground strap on those being thicker than the ES series plugs.
I'll see if I can find those...
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I run B9ES gapped @ .018
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QUOTE (phatboyz @ Jul 7 2008, 11:21 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=4686if your running alky and around 7+ timing I run b9egvs they are a lil more expensive then the es but are a good plug
Those are what i will be running in my bike when i switch it to alky, wait i am running them in my bike right now on race gas and they work pretty good.
Those are what i will be running in my bike when i switch it to alky, wait i am running them in my bike right now on race gas and they work pretty good.
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Speaking of.... Has anyone used the Nology pure silver spark plugs??
http://www.nology.com/silver.html
http://www.nology.com/silver.html
QUOTE (dajogejr @ Jul 7 2008, 07:26 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=4681B9ES @ .018 is all I run Mark....the only reason I don't run BR series is my Hotwires have a resistor built into them....
Although the methanol cools the motor better, the actual combustion is hotter than gas. That's the need for a colder plug.
I run BR plugs with my Dyna mostly because it doesn't seem to make a difference on the dyno or with plug life, and the Dyna manual states that you are supposed to run resistor plugs.
With your Hotwires, I think you mean they have capacitors in them, not resistors.
I was curious mostly about the heat ranges folks run with, due to the following:
1.) I was out of BR8ES plugs in my garage yesterday.
2.) While everything you stated about methanol combustion temperature is correct, the flame propogation is quite different than gasoline or nitromethane, and I could probably make a case for going to a hotter heat range plug as well as I could for going colder. My professional experience doen't necessarilly correlate to what to do with a two stroke and all of the books on the subject I have read seem to be all over the place with what has been run. You have to remember, the heat range of the plug has nothing to do with spark temp. or cylinder temp. (if you have read the post this far, I assume you didn't make that misconception).
Although the methanol cools the motor better, the actual combustion is hotter than gas. That's the need for a colder plug.
I run BR plugs with my Dyna mostly because it doesn't seem to make a difference on the dyno or with plug life, and the Dyna manual states that you are supposed to run resistor plugs.
With your Hotwires, I think you mean they have capacitors in them, not resistors.
I was curious mostly about the heat ranges folks run with, due to the following:
1.) I was out of BR8ES plugs in my garage yesterday.
2.) While everything you stated about methanol combustion temperature is correct, the flame propogation is quite different than gasoline or nitromethane, and I could probably make a case for going to a hotter heat range plug as well as I could for going colder. My professional experience doen't necessarilly correlate to what to do with a two stroke and all of the books on the subject I have read seem to be all over the place with what has been run. You have to remember, the heat range of the plug has nothing to do with spark temp. or cylinder temp. (if you have read the post this far, I assume you didn't make that misconception).
QUOTE (dajogejr @ Jul 7 2008, 11:02 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=4694Speaking of.... Has anyone used the Nology pure silver spark plugs??
http://www.nology.com/silver.html
Funny you bring those wonders up.............. Once upon a time, I was sent a box of those to fool around with where I used to work. After having one of my guys do some research, we found that they were popular with import car guys..........
Our EE group has some questions that seemingly could not be answered over the phone, so we got one of Nology's two engineers (the asian guy that no one could understand, but seemed more intelligent than the other). The EE guys got their answers and floated a report back to me that they couldn't verify that these plugs were any better than what we were using and some of the claims made by Nology were not plausible at face value. One of the project managers was bothering me at the time one of his mule engines was due to go in a cell, so one of my tech.'s loaded a set of plugs into one of the Phase 18 engines (someone figured we had to get these plugs tested, but I was figuring there was a reason no one else used them). After a few hours of engine break-in and track simulation the engine started to miss and have some fueling issues, so it was pulled out of the cell. Some of the FIS parts wound up being messed up, but we also found 5 out of the eight plugs has nearly fallen appart, though they were still sparking (the electrodes were loose, porcelain separated from plug body, etc.).
The moral of the story is that I hope those plugs have gotten better in the past few years, otherwise you can toss them in the round file with Splitfire spark plugs (which are a mis-application of a great concept, but that's another story).
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http://www.nology.com/silver.html
Funny you bring those wonders up.............. Once upon a time, I was sent a box of those to fool around with where I used to work. After having one of my guys do some research, we found that they were popular with import car guys..........
Our EE group has some questions that seemingly could not be answered over the phone, so we got one of Nology's two engineers (the asian guy that no one could understand, but seemed more intelligent than the other). The EE guys got their answers and floated a report back to me that they couldn't verify that these plugs were any better than what we were using and some of the claims made by Nology were not plausible at face value. One of the project managers was bothering me at the time one of his mule engines was due to go in a cell, so one of my tech.'s loaded a set of plugs into one of the Phase 18 engines (someone figured we had to get these plugs tested, but I was figuring there was a reason no one else used them). After a few hours of engine break-in and track simulation the engine started to miss and have some fueling issues, so it was pulled out of the cell. Some of the FIS parts wound up being messed up, but we also found 5 out of the eight plugs has nearly fallen appart, though they were still sparking (the electrodes were loose, porcelain separated from plug body, etc.).
The moral of the story is that I hope those plugs have gotten better in the past few years, otherwise you can toss them in the round file with Splitfire spark plugs (which are a mis-application of a great concept, but that's another story).
QUOTE (Backcountry @ Jul 7 2008, 12:00 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=4689I like the B9EGVs because the fine wire electrode tends to burn off easier to let you know you are lean!!!
That's a widely accepted theory, but in reality it seems that more "egv" plugs have burned holes in pistons, whereas the "es" will sometimes burn the strap first. The topic has come up before, and everyone was suprised at how may have burned the straps off of the b9es plugs, and burned up pistons with the b9egv. I've actually seen a piston saved by the strap burning off of the es plug, so it's not just an opinion or repeat of what others may have said. I used to run br9egv, now I only run the br9es with a dyna, or b9es with a stock cdi.
That's a widely accepted theory, but in reality it seems that more "egv" plugs have burned holes in pistons, whereas the "es" will sometimes burn the strap first. The topic has come up before, and everyone was suprised at how may have burned the straps off of the b9es plugs, and burned up pistons with the b9egv. I've actually seen a piston saved by the strap burning off of the es plug, so it's not just an opinion or repeat of what others may have said. I used to run br9egv, now I only run the br9es with a dyna, or b9es with a stock cdi.
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If it wasn't for my ES plug melting so quick (my fault, forgot to turn pet[censored] on), I would definitely have a hole in right side piston. But, it melted the ground strap and the porcelain around the electrode, lol, I still have the plug as a reminder of what not to do...I read those same threads about EGV's vs. ES plugs when it comes to which will burn up faster, and I've run the ES plugs ever since. I also have a buddy that is notorious for burning his ground strap up, he also runs ES plugs. He and I both haven't lost any compression from our incidents...My vote goes for ES plugs as far as which to run if you're worried about running it too lean. Just my .02
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Well...the simplest way of doing it. Doesnt matter what spark plug you are running. Always always always always always always make sure you are rich before taking a pass down the track/hill/road/driveway. Crank the PJ's out a couple turns and make it blubber. 2 or 3 or 4 passes to get it back close again is smart time spent. Far too many yahoos pull their scooter outta the garage or yank it off the trailer and make a pass without touching anything- POOF! They arent exactly handing out cash awards or shiny medals for being an idiot and thinking you're King $hit that doesnt have to tune.
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QUOTE (Backcountry @ Jul 8 2008, 04:01 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=4771They arent exactly handing out cash awards or shiny medals for being an idiot and thinking you're King $hit that doesn't have to tune.
They should, it would give some of us something to look forward to....LOL.
They should, it would give some of us something to look forward to....LOL.
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QUOTE (Backcountry @ Jul 8 2008, 01:01 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=4771Well...the simplest way of doing it. Doesnt matter what spark plug you are running. Always always always always always always make sure you are rich before taking a pass down the track/hill/road/driveway. Crank the PJ's out a couple turns and make it blubber. 2 or 3 or 4 passes to get it back close again is smart time spent. Far too many yahoos pull their scooter outta the garage or yank it off the trailer and make a pass without touching anything- POOF! They arent exactly handing out cash awards or shiny medals for being an idiot and thinking you're King $hit that doesnt have to tune.
Obviously that is the best thing to do, but we are human, and do make simple mistakes...it's nice to know which plugs will provide that "security" if you will, to help prevent putting a hole in your piston when you do mess up.
Just because I might burn up a plug doesn't mean that I'm some yahoo pulling my scooter off the trailer and riding the [censored] out of it without any tuning. As you well know, tuning your bike is trial and error, and we all will have error at one point and time when trying to dial in our setups. You're talking like we're all a bunch of lazy idiots that don't have a clue.....
Obviously that is the best thing to do, but we are human, and do make simple mistakes...it's nice to know which plugs will provide that "security" if you will, to help prevent putting a hole in your piston when you do mess up.
Just because I might burn up a plug doesn't mean that I'm some yahoo pulling my scooter off the trailer and riding the [censored] out of it without any tuning. As you well know, tuning your bike is trial and error, and we all will have error at one point and time when trying to dial in our setups. You're talking like we're all a bunch of lazy idiots that don't have a clue.....
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