Alky Plug Reading
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QUOTE (Lightninn @ Aug 10 2008, 06:43 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=7866Here are a couple pics of one of the plugs after 4 passes. Any thoughts?
looks like plenty of heat to me, i have noticed with timing change, with more timing can put more heat on plugs without changing jetting, so i`d say depending on timing that plenty, but if you change timing might not get as much or more depending on your setting now, maybe some more will chime in on their thoughts
looks like plenty of heat to me, i have noticed with timing change, with more timing can put more heat on plugs without changing jetting, so i`d say depending on timing that plenty, but if you change timing might not get as much or more depending on your setting now, maybe some more will chime in on their thoughts
QUOTE (frank @ Aug 10 2008, 07:05 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=7883looks like plenty of heat to me, i have noticed with timing change, with more timing can put more heat on plugs without changing jetting, so i`d say depending on timing that plenty, but if you change timing might not get as much or more depending on your setting now, maybe some more will chime in on their thoughts
id go alittle richer, 3 and 9 o clock is what i was told to not exceed going by heat readings.
my bike actually runs best at about 1 and 11 o clock go figure different setups do different things i guess. lol
id go alittle richer, 3 and 9 o clock is what i was told to not exceed going by heat readings.
my bike actually runs best at about 1 and 11 o clock go figure different setups do different things i guess. lol
Just to clarify, this is on 300 foot runs. Timing on this was 10 degrees advanced.
I've read two different methods concerning alky plug reading. One method was the 3-9 o-clock burn pattern. Another was to burn 90% of the plating off the base ring of the plug. As you can see, I'm somewhat between each of these methods.....
I've read two different methods concerning alky plug reading. One method was the 3-9 o-clock burn pattern. Another was to burn 90% of the plating off the base ring of the plug. As you can see, I'm somewhat between each of these methods.....
QUOTE (Lightninn @ Aug 11 2008, 10:42 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=7907Just to clarify, this is on 300 foot runs. Timing on this was 10 degrees advanced.
I've read two different methods concerning alky plug reading. One method was the 3-9 o-clock burn pattern. Another was to burn 90% of the plating off the base ring of the plug. As you can see, I'm somewhat between each of these methods.....
i agree with and understand both sceineros, i was assuming your timing was up there and some motors run better with more than others, the plug readings is and a way to give you a idea of what going on in there at what it jetted and timing at, with same carbs and pipes, etc, and the distance you mentioned is a factor also, i would think with it being at 3 and 9 o-clock would give you some room if a temp change happened before night racing, with a tweaking of powerjet to keep it in the numbers
I've read two different methods concerning alky plug reading. One method was the 3-9 o-clock burn pattern. Another was to burn 90% of the plating off the base ring of the plug. As you can see, I'm somewhat between each of these methods.....
i agree with and understand both sceineros, i was assuming your timing was up there and some motors run better with more than others, the plug readings is and a way to give you a idea of what going on in there at what it jetted and timing at, with same carbs and pipes, etc, and the distance you mentioned is a factor also, i would think with it being at 3 and 9 o-clock would give you some room if a temp change happened before night racing, with a tweaking of powerjet to keep it in the numbers
Yeah no two engines are the same. Each is unique and requires tuning to suit.
I can't comment on numbers as I haven't had it at a track yet.
Take a look at the ground strap and give me your input on timing. I took a pic trying to show the ground strap better. Not sure if it is clear enough.
I can't comment on numbers as I haven't had it at a track yet.
Take a look at the ground strap and give me your input on timing. I took a pic trying to show the ground strap better. Not sure if it is clear enough.
QUOTE (Lightninn @ Aug 11 2008, 01:10 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=7941Yeah no two engines are the same. Each is unique and requires tuning to suit.
I can't comment on numbers as I haven't had it at a track yet.
Take a look at the ground strap and give me your input on timing. I took a pic trying to show the ground strap better. Not sure if it is clear enough.
I can't comment on numbers as I haven't had it at a track yet.
Take a look at the ground strap and give me your input on timing. I took a pic trying to show the ground strap better. Not sure if it is clear enough.
sorry bout that, don`t know what i did wrong, but from looking at strap, i view it as to take heat away from it add some more fuel thru powerjet to open up or take some heat away from it, i try to only make just enough heat on plugs to have motor running good, maybe make`em last longer, up to a point you can make more power with more fuel and then taking some away till it still runs good, for me what that does is keep me from chasing my jetting from earlier in warmer temps to cooler temps at night, mine has usually wanted more fuel during daytime and alittle less at night, if i make enough rounds to last that long, usually it no more than a full turn more on powerjet to bout that much less later, i`m trying some diff carbs now and in the learning process all over again
QUOTE (frank @ Aug 11 2008, 05:38 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=7964sorry bout that, don`t know what i did wrong, but from looking at strap, i view it as to take heat away from it add some more fuel thru powerjet to open up or take some heat away from it, i try to only make just enough heat on plugs to have motor running good, maybe make`em last longer, up to a point you can make more power with more fuel and then taking some away till it still runs good, for me what that does is keep me from chasing my jetting from earlier in warmer temps to cooler temps at night, mine has usually wanted more fuel during daytime and alittle less at night, if i make enough rounds to last that long, usually it no more than a full turn more on powerjet to bout that much less later, i`m trying some diff carbs now and in the learning process all over again
But the air is usually cooler and more dense at night vs. the day.??
I usually get my plugs to burn almost at 3 and 9 o'clock during T&T during the day then it seems to be just about right at night, as the cooler air leans out the mixture a tad. I constantly feel my pipes and transfers to see where the heat is at, and to ensure it's the same on both cylinders.
But the air is usually cooler and more dense at night vs. the day.??
I usually get my plugs to burn almost at 3 and 9 o'clock during T&T during the day then it seems to be just about right at night, as the cooler air leans out the mixture a tad. I constantly feel my pipes and transfers to see where the heat is at, and to ensure it's the same on both cylinders.
Yes generally speaking as the air temp decreases, air density increases. If you had it on the ragged edge of being lean during the day and the temp falls at night, you should have to give it more fuel to maintain the same state of tune.
Humidity plays a role as well.... A 90 degree day with high humidity would require less fuel than a day with the same temp and less humidity.
Getting back to the ground strap, necessary timing is determined from where the anealment line is present on the strap. The more you advance the timing, the more time the fuel has to burn inside the cylinder before it is expelled into the exhaust, simply stated. The anealment line will begin on the tip of the ground strap, and as heat builds the line will move towards where the strap is welded to the spark plug base ring.
So.... how does the ground strap on the pictured plug look?
Also... where the heck is everyone's plug pics?!?!? Let's get some comparing going on!!
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Humidity plays a role as well.... A 90 degree day with high humidity would require less fuel than a day with the same temp and less humidity.
Getting back to the ground strap, necessary timing is determined from where the anealment line is present on the strap. The more you advance the timing, the more time the fuel has to burn inside the cylinder before it is expelled into the exhaust, simply stated. The anealment line will begin on the tip of the ground strap, and as heat builds the line will move towards where the strap is welded to the spark plug base ring.
So.... how does the ground strap on the pictured plug look?
Also... where the heck is everyone's plug pics?!?!? Let's get some comparing going on!!
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QUOTE (Lightninn @ Aug 12 2008, 11:27 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=8020Yes generally speaking as the air temp decreases, air density increases. If you had it on the ragged edge of being lean during the day and the temp falls at night, you should have to give it more fuel to maintain the same state of tune.
This would be true if someone were on gas, but I assume this post is about alky, correct?
On alky, I have always have to lean my jetting down a little at a time as the temp drops outside. For instance in the hot summer months I run my jetting very fat cause thats what my engine wants, but have to lean it out in the fall like weather cause it runs pig fat otherwise.
If I am wrong someoone please correct me
This would be true if someone were on gas, but I assume this post is about alky, correct?
On alky, I have always have to lean my jetting down a little at a time as the temp drops outside. For instance in the hot summer months I run my jetting very fat cause thats what my engine wants, but have to lean it out in the fall like weather cause it runs pig fat otherwise.
If I am wrong someoone please correct me
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QUOTE (Asphalt330R @ Aug 20 2008, 07:31 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=8753This would be true if someone were on gas, but I assume this post is about alky, correct?
On alky, I have always have to lean my jetting down a little at a time as the temp drops outside. For instance in the hot summer months I run my jetting very fat cause thats what my engine wants, but have to lean it out in the fall like weather cause it runs pig fat otherwise.
If I am wrong someoone please correct me
I have noticed this too!! ran my bike last winter on the ice and I had to lean her down to get it to run right! it was only 28* out side!
On alky, I have always have to lean my jetting down a little at a time as the temp drops outside. For instance in the hot summer months I run my jetting very fat cause thats what my engine wants, but have to lean it out in the fall like weather cause it runs pig fat otherwise.
If I am wrong someoone please correct me
I have noticed this too!! ran my bike last winter on the ice and I had to lean her down to get it to run right! it was only 28* out side!
QUOTE (badassbanshee479 @ Aug 20 2008, 06:54 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=8760I have noticed this too!! ran my bike last winter on the ice and I had to lean her down to get it to run right! it was only 28* out side!
I would think that has more to do with the engine building enough heat than the air/fuel ratio in those extreme temps. There is no way that the air/fuel ratio decreases with decreased temperature, all other factors being equal (elevation, humidity, barometric pressure). However, to really know what is going on, get an oxygen saturation meter. It will show what percentage of O2 is in the air. I've seen a meter show 98% saturation during the heat of the day, and still be the same at night, 15 degrees cooler. This has to do with a change in barometric pressure and humidity...the other 2 factors besides temperature (and of course, elevation) that influence air density.
With that said, I had my pjs all the way out and still couldn't get enough fuel to my 14 mil when it cooled down to about 45 or 50 at night during a race this spring. Rich as hell when its 80 degrees.
I would think that has more to do with the engine building enough heat than the air/fuel ratio in those extreme temps. There is no way that the air/fuel ratio decreases with decreased temperature, all other factors being equal (elevation, humidity, barometric pressure). However, to really know what is going on, get an oxygen saturation meter. It will show what percentage of O2 is in the air. I've seen a meter show 98% saturation during the heat of the day, and still be the same at night, 15 degrees cooler. This has to do with a change in barometric pressure and humidity...the other 2 factors besides temperature (and of course, elevation) that influence air density.
With that said, I had my pjs all the way out and still couldn't get enough fuel to my 14 mil when it cooled down to about 45 or 50 at night during a race this spring. Rich as hell when its 80 degrees.
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QUOTE (J-Madd @ Aug 21 2008, 02:58 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=8866I would think that has more to do with the engine building enough heat than the air/fuel ratio in those extreme temps. There is no way that the air/fuel ratio decreases with decreased temperature, all other factors being equal (elevation, humidity, barometric pressure). However, to really know what is going on, get an oxygen saturation meter. It will show what percentage of O2 is in the air. I've seen a meter show 98% saturation during the heat of the day, and still be the same at night, 15 degrees cooler. This has to do with a change in barometric pressure and humidity...the other 2 factors besides temperature (and of course, elevation) that influence air density.
With that said, I had my pjs all the way out and still couldn't get enough fuel to my 14 mil when it cooled down to about 45 or 50 at night during a race this spring. Rich as hell when its 80 degrees.
Here is a good article that some have already found but if you have'nt it's good. It is for car set ups but alot of the info is pure plug reading knowledge for anything.
How to read Alky Plugs
With that said, I had my pjs all the way out and still couldn't get enough fuel to my 14 mil when it cooled down to about 45 or 50 at night during a race this spring. Rich as hell when its 80 degrees.
Here is a good article that some have already found but if you have'nt it's good. It is for car set ups but alot of the info is pure plug reading knowledge for anything.
How to read Alky Plugs
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It doesn't matter what fuel you are running when taking atmospheric conditions into consideration. The more air molecules you can stick in that motor the more fuel it is going to need.
If it is cold outside you need to richen it up because more air is being sucked into your motor.
Go walk outside on a 100 degree day, then take a big deep breath. Then walk inside, stick your head in the freezer, and take another big deep breath. You'll breath much more easily with your head stuck inside that freezer because the air is much more dense.
If it is cold outside you need to richen it up because more air is being sucked into your motor.
Go walk outside on a 100 degree day, then take a big deep breath. Then walk inside, stick your head in the freezer, and take another big deep breath. You'll breath much more easily with your head stuck inside that freezer because the air is much more dense.
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