[Ziggy]

We will let the poll run in the background. Just so we have an idea of what members would like to see.

Ok lets start this off with class setups..

First off the heads up classes as these will be the hardest to deal with..

Anyone have a class format we can pick apart?

 

[josh_10_07]

Please explain bracket and index to me.

 

[chuy777]

Do you anticipate on having classes for every type of engine style, example: singles, twins, triples, 4 cylinder, ect. or are you anticipating on having general classes where everyone can race. I have more questions with this also.
I saw that the 4stokes want to have a singles class, but do they mind running with twins also?

I am trying something different with my race in February for the smaller classes, which will allow the begining racers to compete and have a chance to race with others. I dont have my class listing in front of me, but i can post it in the morning.

 

[Sand Assassins]

QUOTE (joshb @ Dec 22 2008, 10:53 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=22163Please explain bracket and index to me.

Brackets is ran on a dial in, where as a index you run in a certain range example 4.10-4.20, first to cross finish line without going too fast wins

 

[Ziggy]

These are great questions. I think our members need to answer. The problem is most of them think their voices will not be heard or that they think it will not matter.
We need them to speak up so we can give them what they want.

I personally would like to see as many members at the track and racing as time will permit..

Index racing is where heads up classes are divided up by dial in times not by motor sizes..

 

[Ziggy]

UBETRUN's contribution

Lets start with the single cylinder classes....

Single cylinder Limited:
0-650cc 4 stroke and 0-370cc 2 stroke OEM frame

651cc-open 4 stroke and 370cc-open 2 stroke OEM frame

0-650c 4 stroke and 0-370cc 2 stroke any frame

651c-open 4 stroke and 370cc-open 2 stroke any frame

Single cylinder Unlimited:
0-650cc 4 stroke and 0-370cc 2 stroke OEM frame

651cc-open 4 stroke and 370cc-open 2 stroke OEM frame

0-650c 4 stroke and 0-370cc 2 stroke any frame

651c-open 4 stroke and 370cc-open 2 stroke any frame

 

[Ziggy]

Just my 2 cents.. that not enough smaller 4 stroke classes, your asking a 480 to run a 650. Speak up guys...

 

[josh_10_07]

I would rather run against people with the same times as me......

 

[josh_10_07]

So that means my 440 2 stroke would run with anything over 370cc and in a stock chassis?

 

[Ziggy]

if its a single yes, how would you like to see it structured?

 

[josh_10_07]

i dont know the first thing about it. I would just like to run against people of the same times because i dont have a full out drag bike yet and is not on the level of a lot of the bigger bikes.

 

[yfznmotion]

i like the index race. dont worry about 1,2,3,4 cylinders just race YOUR time.
plus us 4 pokers can beat up on the 2 smokes

 

[dajogejr]

Ziggy...and Ubetrun...
I understand you guys want to run numbers in OEM chassis.

My only question is this... Who is going to govern this? Who is going to check? Who is going to cheat?
Who is the expert?

 

[Ziggy]

I am not sure that a fair statement Dave, As the site owner I am completely neutral on this, if the members want something different than what they are currently being offered we will do everything in our power to make that happen.

IMO if run correctly, index racing is better than bracket racing.. Index racing no-one needs to be an expert. they run the times they dial in at. But that just means you have to give them runs to figure out their dial ins.

 

[dajogejr]

I have no issue giving them what they want as well.... I'm just saying, lets nip the problem in the bud.
Who is going to be the OEM chassis expert, that's all...

I'm not saying we shouldn't offer it...we should.
But before we do...rules that MOST can agree on should be lightly sketched....I understand we're not going to please everyone.

And I'd like to work with Ubetrun and Mr. Horsepower on the classes as well. Let's face it...if 2-3 bikes show up for a class...is it worth bumping them, etc. We will have to build flexibility into the classes. They need to be fair...but I think everyone will agree...if there is 2 or 3 people in a class...it needs to be absorbed for that given event. If that puts them at a HP or cc disadvantage...then there's hopefully an index class or other heads up class they can run.

SAME goes for the two strokes, 1 cylinder or 25.... if the class is TOO small, they need to absorb. I think that's fair...

Index racing doesn't cater to drag or OEM chassis. It's all about the dial in time.

For a fat guy/rider, index is where it's at.

 

[chuy777]

I think we need to figure out what we are trying to accomplish here regarding the classes.

1. Do you want to have the fastest single, twin, triple, ect.?
In my opinion, these should be considered the unlimited classes. (the baddest machines on the market)

2. Or are you trying to make it comparably fair so everyone can race in a class?

This is what i have done with my classes i plan on running in February.

Unlimited Classes 2 stroke and 4 stroke
001 - Open cc single 2 stroke and 4 stroke
002 - 0-650cc twin
003 - 0-825cc twin
004 - 0-825cc twin spread bore allowed
005 - Open cc twin spread bore allowed
006 - Open cc triple spread bore allowed
007 - Open four cylinder

Limited Classes 2 stroke and 4 stroke
008 - 0-350cc twin, 0-265cc 2stroke, 0-505cc 4stroke (suspended chassis strutted ??)
009 - 0-370cc twin, 0-475cc single, 0-730cc 4stroke
010 - 0-475cc twin, Open cc single, Open cc 4stroke
011 - 0-650cc twin
012 - 0-775cc twin
013 - 0-825cc twin
014 - 0-825cc twin spread bores allowed
015 - Open cc twin spread bores allowed
016 - 0-1325cc triple
017 - Open cc triple and four cylinder

Bracket Classes
018 - Pro Bike 1 (4.19-Faster)
019 - Pro Bike 2 (4.20-Slower)
020 - Sportsbike
021 - Juniors (10-14yrs)
022 - Youth (5-9yrs)

Let me know what everyone thinks, I dont have Index classes at this time because of the time frame the race is being ran and the TnT time is requested. but it can be easily added to the roster.

 

[Ziggy]

I like that..

pretty simple actually.

Test and tune Friday and saturday early AM

Run Friday night starting with the kids
Bracket Classes
018 - Pro Bike 1 (4.19-Faster)
019 - Pro Bike 2 (4.20-Slower)
020 - Sportsbike
021 - Juniors (10-14yrs)
022 - Youth (5-9yrs)

Run anything we can after the Brackets Friday night then the start at 12:00 saturday By 3:00 slide in the Unlimited class
Limited Classes 2 stroke and 4 stroke
008 - 0-350cc twin, 0-265cc 2stroke, 0-505cc 4stroke (suspended chassis strutted ??)
009 - 0-370cc twin, 0-475cc single, 0-730cc 4stroke
010 - 0-475cc twin, Open cc single, Open cc 4stroke
011 - 0-650cc twin
012 - 0-775cc twin
013 - 0-825cc twin
014 - 0-825cc twin spread bores allowed
015 - Open cc twin spread bores allowed
016 - 0-1325cc triple
017 - Open cc triple and four cylinder


Run saturday afternoon Saturday early evening (for spectators)
Unlimited Classes 2 stroke and 4 stroke
001 - Open cc single 2 stroke and 4 stroke
002 - 0-650cc twin
003 - 0-825cc twin
004 - 0-825cc twin spread bore allowed
005 - Open cc twin spread bore allowed
006 - Open cc triple spread bore allowed
007 - Open four cylinder

 

[UBETRUN]

QUOTE (dajogejr @ Dec 23 2008, 09:05 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=22208I have no issue giving them what they want as well.... I'm just saying, lets nip the problem in the bud.
Who is going to be the OEM chassis expert, that's all...

I'm not saying we shouldn't offer it...we should.
But before we do...rules that MOST can agree on should be lightly sketched..

We developed OEM chassis rules a few years ago for the Clash of the Titans races in Sicily LA. The Four Stroke Challenge series adopted those same rules. At Mr. HP's race at Outlaw in Alabama last October, the same rules applied. Since all the quads we're talking about are built basically the same, it's pretty easy to apply the same OEM chassis rules to everyone. It's not complicated, there are lots of OEM chassis "experts" that could help with tech inspections.

The basic rule is that you have to keep the main frame rails, stock suspension/subframe tabs, and stock motor mounts. You can't replace or extend the main frame rails or weld a-arms, swingarm, footpegs, or subframe to the main frame rails, they have to bolt on in the stock locations. You can replace anything that bolts on like a-arms, swingarm, subframe, shocks or struts, and steering stem. Any tabs, brackets, or hangers can be cut off the frame. A couple folks run single a-arm setups and that's OK since they attach to the original suspension tabs. A couple of folks have completely removed the upper a-arm mounts and steering stem bearing to run single a-arms and a drag-style steering stem, that's OK too but it's on the ragged edge of the rules.

On your proposed classes, I don't think any singles can run with a well-built twin. There are 4mm Banshees running better than 3.7s, the twins will dominate every one of those classes.

Also, recommend starting the races at 0900 instead of 1200, it takes a lot longer to run those classes than one would think.

Will the bracket classes be swapped for index if the majority votes that way?

 

[UBETRUN]

One more thought is in that the open classes shouldn't be limited to 4 cylinders, there is at least on 6 cylinder machine (not an automobile motor) that will be running 300' next season.

 

[chuy777]

UBETRUN

The average 4mm stock cylinder, cub, mini bilet run in the high 3's. Yes you will get your few that will break into the 3.7's, but how often.
Would it be better to break it down to 0-400cc twin open cc 2 & 4 stroke

Regarding the 6 cylinder, should the open 4 cylinder class be a strickly open cc class.

I am up for options for my race in February, if i change the classes, you better be there, lol