ATV Drag Racer Forums banner
41 - 60 of 93 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,418 Posts
While I wholeheartedly agree with you Nate, bring your bikes to the track and let the lights and timers decide (dunes/flats are a blast, but they really prove nothing IMO). Lights and timers generally (note I said generally..lol) don't lie.

A groomed track with lights and timers level the playing field...



Have any of you contacted DynoJet and spoken to them, or are you going to keep stating your personal opinions? IF the guys at DynoJet say this information is false...please call it out and let us know.

Otherwise, as many dyno runs as you guys might have, I'm still confident the maker of the equipment still knows more...



A dyno often turns a confidence maker into a heartbreaker because there's a whole lot more to a good running bike at the track. Rider, setup and varying conditions.



I took this year off, but a good friend bought my bike and I will be testing my old motor with him very soon on Matt's Pipes vs. the Snipers. It's had Shearers for the past 5 seasons. I've raced it against some of the very best 10 mil cubs in the country against some of the fastest builders in the country. Gary was gracious enough to get me a set of pipes last year to test and on the first pass of the last race my motor let go (Stupid oversight on my part).



I can tell you...before I even bolted them up, their quality is excellent.

Matt, I have your BB, SF silenced pipes, two out the ignition side. The Snipers I have are stinger pipes, one out each side. Do you feel the two out one side or being silenced hold any advantage or disadvantage over the SRP pipes I have? I understand some builders would say I should have SB, some would say BB. My builder was aware I use BB pipes when he ported and degreed in the motor...and this motor, with BB SRP pipes has always been a runner, even at the biggest race of the year.



Do you have any concerns or anything you'd like to see when i do test them? 10 mil cub, HJR ported on alky...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
107 Posts
I agree that the graph looks odd as pipe-ster had commented. That graph has no usable power! How fast is this motor in the graph in 300 ft, or 1/8th mile?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
I agree with pipe-ster to, there's something wrong with the dyno or it's a BS graph, I have done lots of dyno testing and never had that happen, I would like to know what this motor does in 300ft to? This graph posted shows that either this engine or these sniper pipes have no useable power JMO!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Where the air/fuel shuts off is when he closed the throttle and continued to record.
It’s obvious you do not have a grasp on the understanding on how the hardware and software from dynojet works. It does not mater if the operator lets off the throttle and gets back into the throttle; the software continues to collect data from the analog inputs (air fuel meter) and so on... Until the operator commands a data stop, all analog inputs will continue saving....

The clutch was not slipping from your dyno curve... A clutch slipping has a break in the curve from the engine suddenly revving from clutch slippage while data save is still on.... It can be seen easily seen and heard during the run.... Your run show either....

Here is a dyno chart that shows a clean run on a 421cc Banshee with CPI and then slips when I changed out pipes to Shearer Small bore pipes

The air fuel curve continues even when the clutch slips

Product Rectangle Slope Azure Plot
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,953 Posts
Guys I honestly don't think Jim from has monkeyed with this graph. Its not even his dyno nor software. Wasn't this at sandtrax? I have seen broken data or funky data on sheets before. I hope Jim will come to the ATVDR/HQ ride in october with us and I think we all know where our bikes stand after a day or two of racing each other and we can see if these are hype or the real deal cuz till the sand flies your just blowin smoke.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,030 Posts
Guys I honestly don't think Jim from has monkeyed with this graph. Its not even his dyno nor software. Wasn't this at sandtrax? I have seen broken data or funky data on sheets before. I hope Jim will come to the ATVDR/HQ ride in october with us and I think we all know where our bikes stand after a day or two of racing each other and we can see if these are hype or the real deal cuz till the sand flies your just blowin smoke.


I don't think anyone thinks they monkeyed with the graph. The fact that he tried to explain something (saying the clutch was slipping in a response to my question) makes it seem like he's just trying to blow smoke or something. In this industry there's alot of people who know their [censored] and you can't get away with some wild-haired answer.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14 Posts
I don't think anyone thinks they monkeyed with the graph. The fact that he tried to explain something (saying the clutch was slipping in a response to my question) makes it seem like he's just trying to blow smoke or something. In this industry there's alot of people who know their [censored] and you can't get away with some wild-haired answer.


Science seems to be ignored when it favors your competitor as a rule, Passion is using science when he say's his engines have more BMEP. To figure BMEP, multiple horsepower by 6500 then divide it by displacement divided by 1000 then multply it by Rpm. That is the formula for Brake Mean Effective Pressure in Psi. Any engines that have a higher Bmep rating at that displacement will have a science proven better engine than what Passion has posted.



What is so funny is the low duration high Bmep engines that can not be bogged down are labeled as no usable power and high duration lower Bmep engines that will bog down 3 out 5 times launching unless it only has a 100 pound rider are labeled as having more usable power.



Unless science is applied its all smoke and mirrors with a dash of snake oil, one voo-doo doll all mixed up together sprinkled over with some magic dust. LOL
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
As Nate stated, Lonnie and Ed at Sandtrax have reputations that are really unaproachable.

Its pretty obvious, to me anyway, that there is indeed a software issue. Yes, its impossible for the run data to extend past the Air/fuel data if both are triggered by the same means. This although doesnt mean that the software driving plotting information on to an actual piece of paper has to play by these rules...does it??



Bogus dyno sheet??.... Exactly how would that conversation sound like.... Something like this maybe>>>> "Hey Lonnie and Ed, I like the results, but could you manipulate the graph where the fuel curve ends just a few hundred RPM before the HP curve does? This way everybody would think my engine can actually make more HP than theres does with no gas at all at peak HP."



Or better yet, how about this one>>>>>>> " You know, if we just back up that fuel curve a few hundred RPM from where the HP curve ends people will think the engine is so efficient that it becomes self aware and at peak HP RPM that it doesnt even need an outside fuel source to create power." I like that one best, that way I can claim to have solved the worlds energy problems at the same time. Come on people!



If you really have that much time to study this...you should study BMEP and what it really means in predicting engine performance...thats what the entire concept of BMEP was created for...no more heartbreaks from the dyno to the track and wasted time on other concepts popular on this site. Understanding BMEP and using it exclusivly in engine design eliminates all the unaswered questions engine builders have been asking themselves for decades.



As for performance of this particular engine, in a lesser state of tune its outrun 20mill Cheetahs in 500 ft. whopping down alot more HP than this thing makes...not to mention dozens of other engines it "shouldn't" have outrun. I freshen up this engine every year for this customer for the last 5 years. I massaged it a little on the last build for a few tests and this was the outcome.



Dont take my word for it though, read up on all of this the same place I do.....The world of real science!



Last thoughts... this is a [email protected] at the crankshaft design (ON GAS!!!!). It make more HP, and 7% percent more torque 800 RPM earlier than any engine of this size Ive ever seen a sheet posted on. If you dont understand the importance of how much more work/time increase that is over a 185BMEP design at 10300RPM making 59 ft. lbs tq. is..youve got a even a little more time needed hitting the books...Jim
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,418 Posts
It's obvious you do not have a grasp on the understanding on how the hardware and software from dynojet works.


Like I've told you before, where are your time slips for your dyno queens? I took this year off and sold my bike a month ago, as stated, but in the 5 years prior I've never, EVER seen a motor of yours or bike of yours at any of the tracks...open or now closed.



Also, why don't you hit Silver Lake dunes on Labor Day weekend when all the fast bikes are there so you can see how your motors stack up, there's no pride in whooping up on a bunch of piped 450's in the dunes on an off Holiday weekend.

Then you could head to the track and get some time slips.



I've never had love for Jim @ Passion, but I give him respect, his customers love him and are very loyal.



How many of the doubters in this thread actually called SandTrax or better yet...the number posted for the manufacturer of the dyno? None.

It's easier to doubt and just pile on....



Radar....nice post! When the sand flies the BS stops...I agree!!!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
76 Posts
Guys I honestly don't think Jim from has monkeyed with this graph. Its not even his dyno nor software. Wasn't this at sandtrax? I have seen broken data or funky data on sheets before. I hope Jim will come to the ATVDR/HQ ride in october with us and I think we all know where our bikes stand after a day or two of racing each other and we can see if these are hype or the real deal cuz till the sand flies your just blowin smoke.


Ok, who want's to match race the engine posted that has no usable power at Little Sahara next month with an equivalent weight rider as me 220 and equivalent displacement? A nice friendly wager would be in order for such an occasion. Fuel will be chanced to methanol for the race. If there are any takers we will see what it takes to get the engine back for that weekend. After the race, a head off inspection to verify bore and stroke would insure fair competition since some builder's reputation will be on the line.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
303 Posts
First I would like to say that I'm sorry this post has turned into drama it seems this happens when Passion,srp,Dajogejr,more torque and I are in the same post, it always does. I would also like to be clear when I say I only commented on the graph not to the performance of the engine or these pipes. I would never try and smear anyones reputation or discredit anyone or any product. And why would anyone beleive me about a pipe comparison. That being said why would I care about someone else's pipe test. Are these engines or pipes setting records in your town? Are these engines or pipes setting the world on fire or are even competative at the races with the people that are setting the world on fire? Are these things happening and I haven't heard about? Just courious.

That being said I accept this challenge. I will bring my 4mm cub to LS on Oct.6-8. But feel free to bring your 10mm. I'm not a betting man so I will have to decline your wager. As far as pulling the head on my motor thats not going to happen but I will allow you to measure my cylinder and I'll pull the plug so you can measure the stroke. You'll have to trust me with the bore. This will be a chance for you guys to prove your science. Just remember I will be driving like 1500 miles so please make sure to be there. I think this will be a cool way to see how our stuff compares to yours.

I will say this, after all of this drama this is because of Passiion and srp and their quest to sell their product and the way they try to sell their product. They try to talk over people's heads and show how smart they are. In the end there are alot of intelligent people on atvdragracers that can't be fooled.

Please understand I have no problem with Passion or srp nor do I care about either of them, their products or their engines. They are the ones twisting this to be about Me VS them. They are calling me out and I always like a good challenge. I'm sorry If I'm reading this wrong but if I am, please say somthing here on the net for the world to see and save me this trek. This is your way out.

If not make sure you bring your A game. See ya at LS.

-Shearer Custom Pipes-
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
First I would like to say that I'm sorry this post has turned into drama it seems this happens when Passion,srp,Dajogejr,more torque and I are in the same post, it always does. I would also like to be clear when I say I only commented on the graph not to the performance of the engine or these pipes. I would never try and smear anyones reputation or discredit anyone or any product. And why would anyone beleive me about a pipe comparison. That being said why would I care about someone else's pipe test. Are these engines or pipes setting records in your town? Are these engines or pipes setting the world on fire or are even competative at the races with the people that are setting the world on fire? Are these things happening and I haven't heard about? Just courious.

That being said I accept this challenge. I will bring my 4mm cub to LS on Oct.6-8. But feel free to bring your 10mm. I'm not a betting man so I will have to decline your wager. As far as pulling the head on my motor thats not going to happen but I will allow you to measure my cylinder and I'll pull the plug so you can measure the stroke. You'll have to trust me with the bore. This will be a chance for you guys to prove your science. Just remember I will be driving like 1500 miles so please make sure to be there. I think this will be a cool way to see how our stuff compares to yours.

I will say this, after all of this drama this is because of Passiion and srp and their quest to sell their product and the way they try to sell their product. They try to talk over people's heads and show how smart they are. In the end there are alot of intelligent people on atvdragracers that can't be fooled.

Please understand I have no problem with Passion or srp nor do I care about either of them, their products or their engines. They are the ones twisting this to be about Me VS them. They are calling me out and I always like a good challenge. I'm sorry If I'm reading this wrong but if I am, please say somthing here on the net for the world to see and save me this trek. This is your way out.

If not make sure you bring your A game. See ya at LS.

-Shearer Custom Pipes-




Matt, none of my coments are directed torwards you directly. We've done business for years with good repore...just the way I like it. The graph that was posted didnt even compare your pipes, it was simply a test of a particular engine fitted with a few different concept pipes we were considering developing.

If I came across as a bit testy, it was based simply on the questioning of my credibility. Although my power delivery style theory's may be somewhat different than the norm in the industry, my ethical behaviour is just like yours...untouchable.



I will see if obtaining this engine from the East coast is possible for Gary's proposed match up. I just shipped this engine back to its owner a few weeks ago..not sure if he will be game on giving it back for a while. If possible I will assemble another engine to replace it with for the LS event in the event that my customer declines.

I am extremely backed up on builds currently and have been operating on fumes for some time now...well see how it goes.



In any event,,,sounds like my kind of fun...look forward to it...Jim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
337 Posts
I would love to see this turn into the "battle of the builders". Gary has a fast 4 mil passion cub that he could bring. It would be awesome to see Nate throw his hat into the ring as well as D&M, K&T, HJR, etc. This could balloon into something pretty cool. Our sport needs a little boost right now.





Hats off to Matt for stepping up to the challenge and to Gary for starting the challenge.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
76 Posts
First I would like to say that I'm sorry this post has turned into drama it seems this happens when Passion,srp,Dajogejr,more torque and I are in the same post, it always does. I would also like to be clear when I say I only commented on the graph not to the performance of the engine or these pipes. I would never try and smear anyones reputation or discredit anyone or any product. And why would anyone beleive me about a pipe comparison. That being said why would I care about someone else's pipe test. Are these engines or pipes setting records in your town? Are these engines or pipes setting the world on fire or are even competative at the races with the people that are setting the world on fire? Are these things happening and I haven't heard about? Just courious.

That being said I accept this challenge. I will bring my 4mm cub to LS on Oct.6-8. But feel free to bring your 10mm. I'm not a betting man so I will have to decline your wager. As far as pulling the head on my motor thats not going to happen but I will allow you to measure my cylinder and I'll pull the plug so you can measure the stroke. You'll have to trust me with the bore. This will be a chance for you guys to prove your science. Just remember I will be driving like 1500 miles so please make sure to be there. I think this will be a cool way to see how our stuff compares to yours.

I will say this, after all of this drama this is because of Passiion and srp and their quest to sell their product and the way they try to sell their product. They try to talk over people's heads and show how smart they are. In the end there are alot of intelligent people on atvdragracers that can't be fooled.

Please understand I have no problem with Passion or srp nor do I care about either of them, their products or their engines. They are the ones twisting this to be about Me VS them. They are calling me out and I always like a good challenge. I'm sorry If I'm reading this wrong but if I am, please say somthing here on the net for the world to see and save me this trek. This is your way out.

If not make sure you bring your A game. See ya at LS.

-Shearer Custom Pipes-
Yes I do want to race, just got the word that the motor in question will be there. And no, the last thing I want is a way out.



Myself and everybody else is having a hard time seeing where I called you out, or singled you out. If that's what you thought than you will have to show me what I said.



I look forward to racing you and everybody else that is in our weight class.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
i for one have no problem seeing where you singled out SCP...




these are qoutes from passion and srp posts:



"On gas 421's we’ve achieved more than 10 peak HP increase over any other pipe in existence, while maintaining as much mid range torque, and developing this HP and torque earlier than any pipe in existence."



"Top graph shows Sniper +10.12HP & +6.58 lbs/tq. OVER Shearer inframe....Jim"





"The 421 numbers Jim posted that was 11 HP more was Sniper in-frame to Shearer in-frame, The 421 numbers he posted that was Sniper in-frame to SB Shearer OOF was 5HP difference"
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,953 Posts
Dont turn the calling out into any drama guys. I really dont see it as drama. Theres been no name calling or B.S. here.

For anyone reading this that doesnt know who Pipe-ster is, its Matt Shearer from Shearer Custom Pipes. We all have read for a while about these new pipes and there has been a lot of excitement about them. I think many of us will agree that Shearer pipes have been the top dog for quite a while and that when a new pipe maker comes along and CALLS OUT ANYONE IN THE WORLD with a 10mm cub or smaller for a match race its no surprise that Matt Shearer or other builders will want a piece of that.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,418 Posts
I'm impressed how SRP and SCP are both handling it.

Glad to see SRP put it out there...and glad to see SCP accepted.



Obviously, Matt's had the target on his back for the longest time. But other competition is always good...and it benefits everyone.



Wish I could make this trip, I bet it'd be a blast.
 
41 - 60 of 93 Posts
Top