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Buttermilk, please don't misunderstand the Dyno sheet shown. That was as rich as the carbs could go stk cr ignition etc etc....We just didn't get to make the passes needed to get it dialed.
As you can see the bottom end is stronger than the the 4 stroke. The peak power is way more, but the overrev just isn't there yet on that crude dyno pass. That motor will have a much broader tq curve as soon as it is tuned. And we can easily set one up for a broader torque curve still.

You might also consider using a recall tach on one of your 4 strokes around the track, and see the highest/lowest rpm used, and use those rpm #s for your average...
 

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Grey Wood Font Twig Electric blue
Bigger carbs give your motor more air, and smaller carbs give your motor more fuel.

Anyway, this is an 85/72 (stock stroke) Puma. It is the "left-side" of the TWIN PUMA
This is a new setup, and it looks like it's gonna work! It is 94.1hp & 57ft lbs of torque and that should be a great start X 2 cylin ders. As an 817cc twin, that should be enough to break some more things.
 

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That is correct. It uses 2 honda trx250r cylinders. It is spaced 145mm on center (Cougar is only 120mm). It is true that there are some design sumularities in the Puma, DMX, and Cougar cylinders. But the Puma is the "honda" cylinder.
We dynoed one of the cylinders on a stock(ish) 250r bottom end. And that cylinder would work on the left or the right side of the twin. We did have some deck height/rod length issues that have been resolved by a different height pair of Puma cylinders that will still work on the stock 250r bottom end with another rod selection. The new cylinders are on there way to plaiting soon...
 

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Maybe I should start a new thread, but it's seems to be time to revisit the Puma topic.

Since the first Puma's were build,(seems like [Dan,Blasterman88], and Jordan[RowanRacing]would have been the first of all the Puma's to be built)there have been a number of them hit the drums, and the sand across the globe.

In California, there have been a number of Puma's to hit the hills, yet few that hit the front page of ATVDRAGRACERS threads because of who all they have outrun. Of course, the "I had the fastest bike at the hill this weekend" chatter is always spoken. But the third party observers have not been telling the "big" stories yet.

Let me say here and now that I am still more impressed with the Puma cylinder than any 250r cylinder. I am convinced that it is the most impressive to date. But there are some challenges to the Puma taking the Honda world by storm: #1. is that there are some slow ones out there. And #2. is bad press.

Slow Pumas:

The 431 Puma's are presently capable of around 100hp, with a nice torque curve, that can get them down into the 3s, even on challenging tracks. But there are many Puma's presently making in the upper 60hp range with some of the setups that we have observed. Very sad. But it's a fact, none the less. Such motors are often not the fault of any professional engine builder, instead, they are the result of a buy-and-bolt setup based on a dream, and internet misinformation. We have also seen a few that were from an otherwise reputable builder, that had most of the neccesary parts, but because of a missing link or two, there were nearly as bad. 30hp off the mark, is too far. And presents an ugly picture when they are lined up beside some old stock cylinder banshee that has been dialed for 10 years, and it embarrasses the 'ol Honda rider.


Some of those setups are only as far off of the mark as they are because the owner "thought" they should try something other than what the builder suggested. Fact remains such poor running Puma's have terribly misrepresented the potential of the Pumas.

Bad Press:

The Puma comes on the scene as a mid sized cylinder. The huge 500+cc Sabre had broken the size and "WOW" factor limits long before the Puma existed. So the Puma is not "biggest" or even "Bigger." No. In fact it's smaller. You can actually kick start it. lol

The Sabre's suffered from the bad rap of being too expensive, and hard to find the setup for, but have outlived the bad name and are likely more popular now than ever, Much to the credit of Niel S., Matt Shearer, and Dennis Packard, an others that have great running Sabres, the Sabre still reigns supreme as the King of Honda's. The new, bigger-still Liger will have to overtake it's reputation.

So the Puma has to be compared to the 7+year track record of the Sabre. And because of the Sabre's dominance over the ProX setups, the fact that the Puma is substantially more powerful that the fastest ProX no longer gets any applause, or recognition. Will anyone care that a 409, or a 431 Puma is half-hilling the fastest ProX? Or running 2-3 tenths faster at the track? No. They will have to match the fastest Sabres to matter. And the fact that there are some really messed up Pumas out there nearly seals there fate.

But despite all this, I am still convinced that the Puma is where it's at.
Every Puma that we have dynoed that made power, proved the dyno was no fluke at the track or the dunes. The cost of the Puma is not cheap simply because it makes too much power for the cheap stuff to handle it. But it is still more affordable than a Sabre. Yet the power is already getting very very close. And our most recent testing leads us to believe that we are just scratching the surface of the Puma's potential.

Just for fun, glance at the Dyno chart below 510 sabre, 409 "poorboy" Puma, and a full-tilt prox 5mm 370. The Sabre, and Puma are alky dune race setups, the prox is the fastest that we know of. Rectangle Slope Font Plot Line
 

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That's right. But more usable power is always faster. Sure, someone can mess them up, but a well setup puma could be puking fuel, or boiling over hot and still likely outrun the fastest ProXs on the planet.
 

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Bubba, It's simple. Hp is only a calculation of FT LBs tourque x RPM/5252. So FT LBs torque is HP/RPM x 5252. That means any time you have a hp curve over rpm, you have the torque too.




TRX501, The Puma still is the most amazing BB Honda cylinder ever, imho. But the smaller Puma will see less advantage of the larger reed than the larger Puma's do. We have built a couple that are doing well on the dunes, but that's quite subjective. None have been to the dyno yet.
 
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