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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was hopeing you all would chime in with the reasons why the best MX rides sport a 50" wide stance, yet the hillshooters and drag bikes all run a narrowed a-arm and axle setup. I get why you would want to be longer with a hillshooter/drag bike, but why go skinny? Is it just to save weight on parts? What's the science to it?
 

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Yep.. and you dont turn as much as you would on a MX track so you dont need the stability from the wheelbase for the turns.

I do prefer somewhat of a wider stance (compared to some) on the front though for dune drags.
 

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Same concept as in drag cars. The top fuel dragsters are narrow and long. Also very rigid.

Where as your daily driver Mustang could race your buddies Civic all the way too the track.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
OK, I'm looking to set my ride up for mostly dune action. I do race from time to time at a track, but it's just to see what times I can run. When I dune, I do a lot of high speed drifting. (high speed arcing turns....picture "Dukes of Hazzard" LOL) I drag race ALOT on the flat areas of the dunes, but this machine is NOT a Hillshooter. I ride at SilverLake michigan. That is NOT a hillshooting ride spot. So if I'm set up for a 48"-50" width and run a +8 swinger with (in the future) a +4 front chromoly frame, so I can Dune/Drag this ride....anybody think I'm going the wrong direction with this build? I'm planning to run a 100HP Cheetah motor on gas, Lonestar +2+1 a-arms, JJ+A 34" play axle, +8 swinger, Works shocks on the front and a re-sprug and valved stocker on the rear, and for now...a stock frame. Many of you may have seen that I'm searching for a +4 front frame that uses stock style a-arms and would get me the 48"-50" width (like a metal tech frame) If anybody has an opinion, idea, info on this setup, please, throw it on out there. Even better....If you know of a nice +4 frame for sale, PM me right away. THANKS.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
No input? .....slow week...
 

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A couple of things. Duning blows with a +8 swingarm. My last duner had a +6 on it and I hated it. I personally would not go over a +4 for a duner, but thats my personal taste. Especially if you are wanting a +4 forward frame. The wheelbase will be way too long to enjoy duning. Second, why go 48-50 inches wide up front and run a 34" play axle. Are you going to run wheel spacers to give the rear end the same stance as the front. Kinda defeats the purpose in my opinion. If you have no problems runing heavy a-arms like the lonestars, why not just use a lonestar axcaliber axle? You wouldnt notice a night and day difference, especially if its not strictly a dune bike.
 

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narrow=straighter runs and more traction by getting the tires underneath you. its also a leverage thing. if one tire gets a little more hook it will try to pull it to the side. if it is narrow then it looses side to side leverage.

imo......ditch the best of both worlds setup and build two different purpose built bikes. or just get a 4 stroke for dunning they work better. you could have a 150hp in a heavy wide dunner setup and get beat by a 90hp 350 setup for drags.
 

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QUOTE (Brady080 @ Mar 25 2009, 05:21 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=35768narrow=straighter runs and more traction by getting the tires underneath you. its also a leverage thing. if one tire gets a little more hook it will try to pull it to the side. if it is narrow then it looses side to side leverage.

imo......ditch the best of both worlds setup and build two different purpose built bikes. or just get a 4 stroke for dunning they work better. you could have a 150hp in a heavy wide dunner setup and get beat by a 90hp 350 setup for drags.

I would have to disagree with the hole notion of narrowness
my turbo saber is 50" up front and 45" on the rear it still has 10" of travel and only weighs 240 and runs strait as an arrow up a hill or down a track or at the dunes

...So you can have the wide stance and still be light and stable

narrow has nothing to do with tration either ,thats a function of weight placement, center of gravity hight, wheel base, and paddles and power
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
QUOTE (AZCUSTOMQUADS @ Mar 24 2009, 09:52 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=35675A couple of things. Duning blows with a +8 swingarm. My last duner had a +6 on it and I hated it. I personally would not go over a +4 for a duner, but thats my personal taste. Especially if you are wanting a +4 forward frame. The wheelbase will be way too long to enjoy duning. Second, why go 48-50 inches wide up front and run a 34" play axle. Are you going to run wheel spacers to give the rear end the same stance as the front. Kinda defeats the purpose in my opinion. If you have no problems runing heavy a-arms like the lonestars, why not just use a lonestar axcaliber axle? You wouldnt notice a night and day difference, especially if its not strictly a dune bike.
I don't know what to tell you. I'm running a +6 now and it feels stock to me. I've TRAIL ridden it and not noticed a big change in the bike. I think on the dirt jumps it even felt better! EVERY ride you've ever seen on Cascades site is a +8 arm. Sandsations calanders...+8 or better. Yah, if all your running is toomey T-5's and sand stars than a +4 might be great. But any decent motor with a straight paddle is gonna' be awfull light in the nose with only a +4. I'm building a 100HP DUNER/DRAGGER. I've got a friend with a +6 on a 350 with a 2into1 intake and fmf pipes that can't keep the front down, and he's 250lbs! Now do the math.....my durablue axle is a 34"....now add the standard wheel offsets....22X11X8 SCATS....=48" Guess how wide an axcaliber axle is...34" I'm going +4 front to put me farther back on the fullcrum point (closer to the back tires so I'm not at the "Top of the tree when it falls") Every hillshooter is a minimum of a +4 front. That's what will make this an all around ride. +4 front, +8 rear, light chromoly frame, 100HP with powervalves, and a widw eyed rider. LOL. I was just wondering WHY the hillshooters and draggers are narrow? If your tire drops into a rut and your only running a 24"-28" axle your chassie is going to TILT right or left alot more than if your spread out at 50". I've yet to see a wide ride do barrel rolls in the whoops. I have seen a few narrow rides that look more like a motorcyle than an ATV get a little sideways and end up barrel rolling. If I hook a sidewall while in a high speed drifting turn, I'd like to have a little "give" so I can put a butt cheek on a footpeg and ride it out. Otherwise, I'll just ditch the ATV, get a 2-stroke dirtbike and join the guys in the Nitro Circus and AIR IT OUT! LOL.
 

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QUOTE (WINDYCITYJOHN400 @ Mar 26 2009, 08:42 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=35877I don't know what to tell you. I'm running a +6 now and it feels stock to me. I've TRAIL ridden it and not noticed a big change in the bike. I think on the dirt jumps it even felt better! EVERY ride you've ever seen on Cascades site is a +8 arm. Sandsations calanders...+8 or better. Yah, if all your running is toomey T-5's and sand stars than a +4 might be great. But any decent motor with a straight paddle is gonna' be awfull light in the nose with only a +4. I'm building a 100HP DUNER/DRAGGER. I've got a friend with a +6 on a 350 with a 2into1 intake and fmf pipes that can't keep the front down, and he's 250lbs! Now do the math.....my durablue axle is a 34"....now add the standard wheel offsets....22X11X8 SCATS....=48" Guess how wide an axcaliber axle is...34" I'm going +4 front to put me farther back on the fullcrum point (closer to the back tires so I'm not at the "Top of the tree when it falls") Every hillshooter is a minimum of a +4 front. That's what will make this an all around ride. +4 front, +8 rear, light chromoly frame, 100HP with powervalves, and a widw eyed rider. LOL. I was just wondering WHY the hillshooters and draggers are narrow? If your tire drops into a rut and your only running a 24"-28" axle your chassie is going to TILT right or left alot more than if your spread out at 50". I've yet to see a wide ride do barrel rolls in the whoops. I have seen a few narrow rides that look more like a motorcyle than an ATV get a little sideways and end up barrel rolling. If I hook a sidewall while in a high speed drifting turn, I'd like to have a little "give" so I can put a butt cheek on a footpeg and ride it out. Otherwise, I'll just ditch the ATV, get a 2-stroke dirtbike and join the guys in the Nitro Circus and AIR IT OUT! LOL.

Narrower=lighter that is probably one of the main reasons the dragers go narrow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Well the Lonestar +2+1 a-arms are bought and I'm commited to that in front. I'm not finding the +4 front frame that I want very easy, so....Looks like it's stock frame for now, till a nice +4 rears it's head. I'll be getting the JJ+A 34" play axle as soon as I can come up with the scratch for an arched +8 swinger. I'm sure there is a reason that all the hillshooter/drag bikes are narrow...(They can't all be wrong)...but I don't think (for me) the reasons would be worth the trade off in stability. Although 26" axles and narrow front frames DO fit nicely side X side in the enclosed trailers. LOL.
 

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it is hard to make a quad do 2 things like brady said you may have to build 2 bikes for best performance
 
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